Earth's shape, motion and place

The whole expresses itself within each part. There may be a nature to the expression.

Systemic Principle: Exploring how I am a system, a part of a system and neither.
golly
Site Admin
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:14 am
Location: Hohokam / Piipaash / Apache / O'odham / Pueblo / Mexico / Arizona

Gender

Skin

Sexuality

Belief

Political

Re: Earth's shape, motion and place

Post by golly »

Velikovsky via David Talbott
Part 1

According to David Talbott's studies inspired by Immanuel Velikovsky’s, the ancient world (of an ambiguous date) may have seen some incredibly strange skies filled with planetary bodies like this, remembered through universally connected ancient myths around the world:

The Golden Age, before "the cycle of day and night" a debris in the air makes night and day similar. Saturn is huge in the middle of the polar heaven.
velikovsky-talbott-001.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-001.JPG (38.74 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-002.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-002.JPG (33.13 KiB) Viewed 63 times

The universal monarch ("king") Saturn possessed a luminous eye, heart and soul corresponding to Mars and Venus in the middle.

Venus is glowing and cloudy white like we see today, but it was a smaller aspect considered feminine. Mars was red and seen within Venus, and it is considered child of Venus but then it becomes a kind of warrior aspect.
velikovsky-talbott-003.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-003.JPG (41.18 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-004.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-004.JPG (21.2 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-005.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-005.JPG (22.59 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-006.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-006.JPG (20.76 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-007.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-007.JPG (23.47 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-008.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-008.JPG (30.63 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-009.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-009.JPG (30.24 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-010.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-010.JPG (25.66 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-011.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-011.JPG (34.96 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-012.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-012.JPG (31.02 KiB) Viewed 63 times

This happens in visible ways in the sky, first when Venus spreads its debris, causing humanity to observe and document a glorious "life giver" of the heavens in a common Great Star symbol. It also could be interpreted as a glowing aura, or a great feminine hairdo.

velikovsky-talbott-013_starform-venus.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-013_starform-venus.JPG (40.17 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-014.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-014.JPG (31.72 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-015.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-015.JPG (31.7 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-016.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-016.JPG (35.38 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-017.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-017.JPG (32.79 KiB) Viewed 63 times
The debris or comet-like emanations of Venus change forms due to something mysterious (but probably attributable to resonance, gravity or electromagnetic effects in this Electric Universe Theory). And each time it's documented in myth and symbol.


For example when Venus starts creating a spoked wheel with the horizon of Saturn.

velikovsky-talbott-018_wheel.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-018_wheel.JPG (46.65 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-019.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-019.JPG (31.63 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-020.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-020.JPG (24.5 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-021.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-021.JPG (25.13 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-022.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-022.JPG (24.42 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-023.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-023.JPG (23.82 KiB) Viewed 63 times

Then, a trine ...

velikovsky-talbott-024_trine.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-024_trine.JPG (20.78 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-025.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-025.JPG (20.85 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-026.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-026.JPG (22.85 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-027.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-027.JPG (21.09 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-028.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-028.JPG (21.85 KiB) Viewed 63 times

And a four-pointed star ...

velikovsky-talbott-029.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-029.JPG (23.04 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-030.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-030.JPG (23.63 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-031.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-031.JPG (26.38 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-032.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-032.JPG (30.16 KiB) Viewed 63 times
velikovsky-talbott-033.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-033.JPG (21.63 KiB) Viewed 63 times

golly
Site Admin
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:14 am
Location: Hohokam / Piipaash / Apache / O'odham / Pueblo / Mexico / Arizona

Gender

Skin

Sexuality

Belief

Political

Re: Earth's shape, motion and place

Post by golly »

Part 2

And when the skies of Earth cleared even more and revealed much more distinct day and night as well as the crescent of Saturn lit by the Sun’s motion around this “pillar of planets”, we have more symbols documented. With day and night also came the “horns” appearing more at night, and aligned with the thickest part of the crescent closest to the horizon, just when the Sun is on the other side of Earth from each locale. (Hopefully for Talbott’s theory, these symbols actually correspond to a timeline he is hoping to explain.)

velikovsky-talbott-034_great-crescent.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-034_great-crescent.JPG (26.06 KiB) Viewed 62 times
velikovsky-talbott-035.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-035.JPG (25.98 KiB) Viewed 62 times
velikovsky-talbott-036.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-036.JPG (26.01 KiB) Viewed 62 times
velikovsky-talbott-037.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-037.JPG (19.23 KiB) Viewed 62 times


As Mars is pulled between Venus and Earth, Mars (and the Gods representing him) first grows his “hat” of debris ...


velikovsky-talbott-038_destable.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-038_destable.JPG (14.76 KiB) Viewed 62 times
velikovsky-talbott-039.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-039.JPG (19.41 KiB) Viewed 62 times


Then a “beard” or “tongue” approaching Earth ...


velikovsky-talbott-040.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-040.JPG (22.07 KiB) Viewed 62 times
velikovsky-talbott-041.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-041.JPG (28.77 KiB) Viewed 62 times
velikovsky-talbott-042.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-042.JPG (24.68 KiB) Viewed 62 times


Which also resembled a dagger ...


velikovsky-talbott-043_dagger.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-043_dagger.JPG (36.18 KiB) Viewed 62 times
velikovsky-talbott-044.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-044.JPG (27.66 KiB) Viewed 62 times


Before the Mars hero is pulled back into relationship with the Venus mother/princess that begins a rather chaotic period, where the debris spirals, also depicted as the hair of the Goddess.


velikovsky-talbott-045_sidelock.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-045_sidelock.JPG (32.42 KiB) Viewed 62 times
velikovsky-talbott-046.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-046.JPG (29.42 KiB) Viewed 62 times
velikovsky-talbott-047.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-047.JPG (28.01 KiB) Viewed 62 times
velikovsky-talbott-048_spiral.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-048_spiral.JPG (23.24 KiB) Viewed 62 times
velikovsky-talbott-049.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-049.JPG (22.43 KiB) Viewed 62 times
velikovsky-talbott-050.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-050.JPG (24.76 KiB) Viewed 62 times

The resulting rings around Venus create a sacred eye.

velikovsky-talbott-051_eye.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-051_eye.JPG (31.53 KiB) Viewed 62 times
velikovsky-talbott-052.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-052.JPG (68.47 KiB) Viewed 62 times
velikovsky-talbott-053.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-053.JPG (20.09 KiB) Viewed 62 times
velikovsky-talbott-054.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-054.JPG (26.12 KiB) Viewed 62 times


When Mars is drawn back in, in this great fluctuation, the debris forms rings around Venus. Then Mars pulls the “eye” closed, as it approaches Earth to create the great disaster. Debris from Mars causes the universal environmental disasters, culminating in the great deluge. Some even suggest the Grand Canyon and the biggest canyon on Mars were created during this time, with a great lightning arcing through space between Mars and Earth.
velikovsky-talbott-055.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-055.JPG (44.11 KiB) Viewed 62 times
velikovsky-talbott-056.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-056.JPG (28.43 KiB) Viewed 62 times

golly
Site Admin
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Oct 29, 2018 11:14 am
Location: Hohokam / Piipaash / Apache / O'odham / Pueblo / Mexico / Arizona

Gender

Skin

Sexuality

Belief

Political

Re: Earth's shape, motion and place

Post by golly »

Part 3

When survivors emerge, what they see is a great pillar painted by Mars moving back toward the opening eye. Perhaps, if we “reverse” the Mount Meru illustration we might suggest that some of humanity (or other beings on Earth) could have come from the heavenly Venus and “descended the tree” at that time. Spirit form, ethereal form, or a form we don’t understand? A very dreamy and mystical concept perhaps, and I don’t mean to subtract from Talbott’s science work by adding this spiritual element but I do wonder on this forum.

velikovsky-talbott-057_emerge.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-057_emerge.JPG (19.31 KiB) Viewed 60 times
velikovsky-talbott-058.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-058.JPG (22.8 KiB) Viewed 60 times

As Venus’s bands expand and disperse, our ancestors document it as a great serpent. Interesting how the “underworld” is considered ruled by a snake- or ribbon- or dragon-like being. I wonder if we came from Mars or Venus considering ourselves “emerging from the underworld” and then Earth is our new place when the snake dissipates. Perhaps I am showing ignorance by speculating in comparison with Talbott’s rigorous studies but this sort of thing really does put me in a mythological frame of mind.

velikovsky-talbott-059_serpents.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-059_serpents.JPG (42 KiB) Viewed 60 times
velikovsky-talbott-060.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-060.JPG (42.31 KiB) Viewed 60 times
velikovsky-talbott-061.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-061.JPG (38.72 KiB) Viewed 60 times
velikovsky-talbott-062.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-062.JPG (43.13 KiB) Viewed 60 times
velikovsky-talbott-063.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-063.JPG (44.09 KiB) Viewed 60 times

Somehow, he has sorted certain ancient graphics with another period after this, which he seems to claim is our ancestors depicting Mars finally "gathering" the debris it takes with it. I am not sure how these are to be distinguished specifically from "the beard" or "the tongue" but perhaps those details are in the books. Given the nature of Venus's turbulence, it seems too short a time (a single ancient civilization's rise and fall, for example) for her exploded snake ring to become a star wheel again, so these graphics placed near "the end" of this great cosmic clash of the sphere titans look to me like they belong more in the "wheel" period prior to the deluge:

velikovsky-talbott-064_mesopotamia.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-064_mesopotamia.JPG (48.25 KiB) Viewed 60 times
velikovsky-talbott-065.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-065.JPG (31.27 KiB) Viewed 60 times
velikovsky-talbott-066.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-066.JPG (36.01 KiB) Viewed 60 times
velikovsky-talbott-067.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-067.JPG (23.99 KiB) Viewed 60 times
velikovsky-talbott-068.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-068.JPG (21.22 KiB) Viewed 60 times
velikovsky-talbott-069.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-069.JPG (43.55 KiB) Viewed 60 times
velikovsky-talbott-070.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-070.JPG (37.14 KiB) Viewed 60 times

The end of the chaotic period is marked by a swirl or whorl of material between Venus and Mars as they finally break away into the orbits they have today. The mythologies we have in our consciousness, he speculates, have to do with a mourning of the great Saturn leaving, the revelation of Jupiter hiding behind Saturn (due to their distance) making Jupiter appear to be “born” from Saturn, as well as more myths about Mars subduing the princess Venus’s chaotic witch form and taking her away to a safe distance from Earth.
velikovsky-talbott-071_chaos.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-071_chaos.JPG (43.42 KiB) Viewed 60 times
velikovsky-talbott-072.JPG
velikovsky-talbott-072.JPG (29.98 KiB) Viewed 60 times
Presumably, the Moon is formed from these similar methods of swirling matter and profound lightning effects, but that’s my speculation since the Earth’s Moon is not brought up in this particular explanation of the model I was looking at.

Granted, his appropriation of so many different cultures runs the risk of not only being too ambitious but overly simplistic. Indeed, what he calls the “U.S.” or “California” we may call by the actual native people of Turtle Island to whom those symbols (and their stories) belong. For example, I had never heard before about the four directions of Earth symbol originating from a cosmic sign painted in the sky by ejected comet-like material. Unfortunately, Talbott and his documentarian in the YouTube movie Remembering the End of the World (1996) do not depict native or indigenous or original narratives, besides this inspired spin on Velikovsky’s work. At least, I have yet to encounter him centering native voices on native creations.


... Or Not

This cosmic history also potentially conflicts with many views about the cosmos I am more familiar with, such as the tranquil TYCHOS or the very (almost unbelievably) rigid hypotheses of ironically chaotic Heliocentricity, but if you move Talbott's timeline further back, to several thousands of years, to align the conflagration with "the ancient flood", we could account for the amount of information we have gained from our system's present "binary" Mars-Sun configuration; we could even place this reconfiguration (arguably a true disaster for humanity) as soon as 12,000-13,000 years ago to put it at a hypothetical "dark age" of "disaster" at the opposite end of the Earth's orbit. Unfortunately, this would also suggest that in another 12,000 years we could encounter another such upheaval. Let's hope not. In any case, I don't think either the Vedic texts or native oral history I have been honored enough to hear support such a recent thing of this magnitude.

The existence of this upheaval even further back in our timeline, like several tens or even hundreds of thousands of years, would leave ample room for the cultural symbols to serve as recordings of ancient history’s ancient history rather than "news stories" of current events. It is awesome to connect the Mount Meru/ancient pillar/tree/mountain myths to this "beard of Mars" and wonder about how the ancient records (such as Vedic documents) might explain this configuration and/or vice versa.

However, the thing about round symbols is ... they are everywhere. They mean so many different things. Much of these illustrations could depict less physical and more metaphysical knowledge, or wisdom of another kind entirely. How do we know if we rely solely on books and speculation? This seems like another case where the voices of the descendants of the record keepers should be centered or at least added.

Post Reply